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Summary
In this episode of Care Lab, Emilia Bourland and Brandy Archie discuss the crucial topic of fall risks, prevention, and how caregivers can handle related situations effectively. They explore real-life scenarios, provide actionable advice, and emphasize the importance of involving occupational and physical therapists in fall prevention. The episode offers practical tips for managing fall risks in home and hospital environments while advocating for proactive communication and planning.
Key Takeaway
- Falls are inevitable but preventable: Nearly everyone will encounter a fall-related situation in their life, making fall prevention knowledge essential.
- Involve professionals early: Engaging an occupational or physical therapist ensures a comprehensive approach to fall prevention, addressing root causes like balance, environment, or habits.
- Advocacy in hospital settings is critical: Patients or caregivers should advocate for appropriate supervision, assistive tools, or environmental adjustments to prevent falls.
- Avoid making changes without consent: Making unapproved adjustments to a loved one’s environment can strain relationships and lead to resistance.
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Proactive planning matters: For hospital stays or at-home care, scheduling bathroom trips and ensuring a safe environment can significantly reduce fall risks.
Transcript
Emilia Bourland
Welcome to Care Lab.
Brandy Archie
It's Care Lab Day, everybody. And this is a really important episode for you to download because you're to want to come back to it if and when the situation comes around in your life. So make sure you download the episode. Plus, it helps other people find this, too. So do us a solid download episode. What are we talking about today, Emelia?
Emilia Bourland
we are talking about, this is actually not an if. First of all, this is a situation room episode, folks. So buckle up, buckle up, buttercup, here we go. And this is actually not an if situation that you're gonna come across. This is a when situation because we are talking about falls, fall risk and fall prevention. And there is not a single person out there who is not going to encounter a situation in their lives where they or someone that they love are caring for.
Brandy Archie
Bum bum bum.
Brandy Archie
there.
Emilia Bourland
have an increased risk of falls and we need to step in and do something about it before a fall in an injury occurs. this is, as you said, this is gonna be a really important episode. Download it, you're gonna wanna listen to it again and you're gonna wanna share this with other folks in your life. So make sure that you do that.
Brandy Archie
Okay, let's go over the rules of Situation Room. First of all, we came up with a theme, so we did know we were gonna talk about falls, but what we don't know is what each other is gonna ask us. So I have some questions, she's got some questions for me, and we're gonna see how we answer them. And hopefully that'll be useful to you.
Emilia Bourland
Okay, yep.
Emilia Bourland
Yeah, there is minimal preparation involved here because that's actually generally how we roll here on Care Lab. That's our normal level. We just show up and we go over stuff. It helps to be a subject matter expert. I mean, we only talk about things that we actually know about or have guests for those things too. But yeah, so this is going to be fun. We don't know what we're throwing at each other. We're going to do our best job here to take this on.
Brandy Archie
I'm just gonna say that's our normal...
Brandy Archie
Thanks.
Emilia Bourland
Brandi, you want to go first or you want me to go first?
Brandy Archie
I want you to go first. I mean, ask me a question first.
Emilia Bourland
Okay, like in terms of I have to... I should have clarified.
Okay, are you asking or I'm asking? Okay.
Brandy Archie
I would, no, you're asking me a question. Ask me a question. My brain is ready to solve it.
Emilia Bourland
Okay, okay, okay, I've got a good one for you here. So what do you do when someone in your life has had a fall? They haven't been injured, but you are worried about them having more falls. You know it's coming and they don't want to do anything about it.
Brandy Archie
Ooh, you put in all the situations on me. Okay, so the person did fall, but they weren't injured actually. And they're not ready to hear about anything that I gotta say, basically.
Emilia Bourland
They did fall.
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie
Okay. okay. Here's what I would do.
Emilia Bourland
You said you wanted to go first. I remind you.
Brandy Archie
I know I did say that and now I'm regretting it.
Emilia Bourland
It's a really hard one, actually.
Brandy Archie
This is a challenging issue. They don't want to do anything about it. Okay. This is one way you could deal with it. I'm not saying this is only way, but this is one way you could deal with it. As a family caregiver, if you're in this situation, what I would suggest is finding, trying to find some reason to get an occupational therapist to come over. And the reason I say that is because your parents don't listen to you, frankly, right? Like you might be a hundred percent right, but you're still their kid.
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie
at the end of the day.
Emilia Bourland
And can I clarify, this isn't just, this isn't, this is an everyone problem. My parents don't necessarily listen to me. Brandy's parents don't necessarily, I'm speaking for you and your parents. They listen to the podcast. There you go. So it's just, it's a family dynamic thing, right? So to your point, getting someone else in, sorry, continue, continue.
Brandy Archie
Everyone.
Brandy Archie
They listen to this podcast, but I don't know that they listen to what I to say to this.
Yes, yes, yes, totally. So it's not your fault. This is just the dynamics of family life, right? And it's not just parents and kids. It's also like husbands and wives and just like the people you engage with the most who we should trust the most, we kind of also play off the most, okay? So this is just like normal. So the reason I say get an OT involved is because now you have a third party and because OT is so particular about like...
reaching the goals that the person has, it's unlikely that your person who failed doesn't have some goal, right? And so I think that's a thing that most people can get behind. This is a person, when you're introducing OT to them, this is a person that is just gonna come and see what we can do to help make sure that you can stay living in your home. Cause clearly they wanna stay there, right? Cause otherwise they'd be open to some action, whether that was moving the little rugs or moving or whatever, whatever. They're not open to no action. They're probably also not open to moving, which means they wanna stay home.
So that's the thing you can connect on and can say, hey, this is preventative. We just want to see if this person has any good ideas or an expert and let them come. Let the OT then talk about the questions, bring, ask the question. They're going to say, when's the last time you had a fall? Because that's just what we do. And they're going to talk about it. And then they're going to, in a very non-threatening way, like go through like the root cause of that and come up with some solutions that they're going to be willing to participate in. Right? Because it's going to be a back and forth conversation with OT.
If you, this is no hate to PTs, but if you say falls is only about balance, which it could 100 % be about balance. But if you assume that it's only about balance and you say, need to get a PT in because you fell, then that feels like an attack to them because you're saying you're not safe. You can't keep your body up straight. You need to do these exercises. And that might be true. But if you come at it from a more holistic perspective of an OT, just like probing about prevention.
Brandy Archie
or about just staying in the home because that is true, then in the back end you end up with the answer that you need.
Emilia Bourland
I would, let me add onto that just a little bit in that, as you said, sometimes falls are about balance, but usually falls are multifactorial. And when you have an OT come into the situation, they're gonna look at all of those factors and see how they work together. So, and as you said, the goal is gonna be about like, it's gonna be about a function. What do you wanna, you wanna be able to stand up and cook? You wanna be able to walk to the bathroom without having fear. Like what is it that you wanna do?
Brandy Archie
Yeah.
Emilia Bourland
So we can frame that discussion around something that's not just about falls. It can be about whatever that person values. And then because there, we can address lots of different factors that involve, we can also meet that person where they're at in terms of what they are willing to address. Because again, to your point, usually we think about falls. We think, this person is having trouble walking. They need a PT. But what if this actually has to do with their vision?
Brandy Archie
Yeah.
Emilia Bourland
What if this has actually has to do with some arrangement of the furniture? What if this has to do with a habit or some other thing that we can take an intervention on? Where can we meet that person where they might be willing to make some change in order to make something that's a value to them doable again? And so there's just a whole lot more tools in the toolkit to start addressing that problem. And to your point, it takes you out of that situation and
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
says, okay, we're going to have this expert lead it and just give you some options here. It's all about options. It's all about choice.
Brandy Archie
Exactly. Exactly. And then when you make it about choice and options, then they're part of that and they get to choose. And then you don't choose things that you don't buy into and that you're not going to do. So then we get the outcome that we want, which is some level of change probably.
Emilia Bourland
Okay, so second part to the situation room question though, is there anything that people should absolutely not do in this situation if they can avoid it?
Brandy Archie
yeah, the thing I would not do is make a bunch of proclamations and do a bunch of changing without their consent. So we're dealing with a person who doesn't want to change anything. You see that there's problems. Maybe you even correctly identify that there's some problem. You just go in there, start taking up some rugs, move some stuff around, proclaiming that they need to go to rehab or whatever. That's just going to strain your relationship and they're going to rebound really hard on that and do exactly the opposite of whatever it is you want to do.
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie
I mean, because that's just human nature. And so if the goal at the end of the day is to help this person be safer, stay living in their home, have fewer falls in the future or no falls in the future, then we need buy-in. And you can't get buy-in if you just like command over the whole situation.
Emilia Bourland
Totally, absolutely, nailed it.
Brandy Archie
Yeah. Thank you. I'm here all day, guys. Here all day. OK, so you just made me have to go for a home run. I was going to ask a simpler question, actually, as my first question. So since I already gave this answer, give us a little bit different option. What do you do if your person fell, their hip hurts, and is not fractured? So let's say this is in the acute moment. They called you. They said they fell. You help them get up.
Emilia Bourland
Hahaha
Emilia Bourland
I,
Brandy Archie
Maybe it went to the ER and you saw that it's not fractured, but now you're not a part of healthcare system. It's not fractured, they send you home, you're still worried. What do do?
Emilia Bourland
you're still worried about them falling. Yeah, that's one thing. And they're having pain. That's the other thing. So, I mean, partly I have to revert back to your original answer. So we had a fall, we should call in an occupational therapist. And that might mean that going to the primary care doctor and saying, can we get an occupational therapist out here for home health or whatever it is.
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. That's the thing, and they're having pain.
Emilia Bourland
or in the outpatient clinic could mean while you are in the hospital at that point of service, asking some hospitals will actually like have an occupational therapist come see you in the ER. Although that's probably not the best scenario for you here. You really wanna have an OT in your home so that they can look at the whole big picture. That's ideal. But if you're sitting there in the ER and they're about to send you home, say, hey,
Brandy Archie
Come to the house. Yeah.
Emilia Bourland
we don't want this to happen again, can you put in an order for home health to get an occupational therapist out to the house? So like that's your opportunity to get those services initiated right there and then kind of take it that whole area that all those things that we already talked about before. Now the problem is if someone's going home and they don't necessarily have like an acute severe injury like a hip fracture, a broken bone, but they do have pain.
a lot of what you're gonna, then you might be in a situation where that person does not want to get up. So they don't wanna get up. Maybe they are now having some fear about falling. And that fear in and of itself is of course a big predictor of future falls, but then also that lack of additional mobility. just sitting around and not wanting to get up, that can be another cause of additional future falls.
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
So what do you do there? Again, I think it's very important to have professionals in this situation who are coming in and being those primary folks who are providing the recommendations and who are setting you and your loved one up for success. Because to your earlier point, not only, maybe you do identify the right things, maybe you don't identify the right things, the family dynamics that are involved in this situation are unlikely to, to.
Brandy Archie
fold well for your favor.
Emilia Bourland
Bode well, yeah. But what we do want to do is provide enough supervision and safety and support to give that person the confidence that they can get up and move around as much as is safe for them. We actually have on at higher standards caregiver training.
there's a lot of educational content on there for family caregivers specifically about like safe mobilization, safe equipment usage, things like that, that you can use to kind of help increase your understanding of how to do those things safely. So I would recommend checking those out, especially while you're waiting for maybe that individualized like plan of care from occupational therapy to come out and get started. But you know, just trying to...
make that person as comfortable as possible, provide the right supervision and level of assistance so that they can be confident enough to start mobilizing on their own and really getting that OT in there as quickly as possible to make sure that any equipment that they needed is appropriately recommended, that there is a plan to address this overall holistic reason that this fall occurred.
and get people started as soon as possible down that path because what we don't want to do is There's a thing not to do and that is to say whoo. Well, thank goodness. They didn't didn't get hurt. I hope that doesn't happen again and and not which is what most people do and and and You know do nothing because I guarantee you
Brandy Archie
that there's a thing not to do.
Brandy Archie
Which is the thing most people do.
Emilia Bourland
if there has been a fall, there is going to be another fall. And it is only a matter of time until one of these falls does result in an injury that can be absolutely life-changing. So we don't want to sit and like go, woo, thank goodness that didn't go that badly, and then cross our fingers and hope for the best.
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie
So what I hear in recap is that try to get an OT out even though there's no actual fracture and they might not initiate sending one, but ask for one either from the ER doctor or from the primary care doctor and feel confident because it's not fractured that you help them move, that you encourage them to move even though they have pain. And then lastly, to not...
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie
ignore it and act like, whew, that's over and keep going. Yeah.
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm. Yep, absolutely that that summed it up quite nicely Okay Are you ready for another question? Okay. Well, I gotta look at my list Just in case you're if you're wondering dear care lab listener. I have a list for everything I have so many keep notes on my phone It's crazy because I just think like I'll just jot down notes all the time all day long because otherwise I won't remember it Okay
Brandy Archie
Sweet.
Yes. Yes.
Brandy Archie
You
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
What do you do if the person that you love or that you're caring for, you feel like they're not walking super well, but they haven't had a fall yet, and you think that they might need some sort of supportive walking device, an assistive device like a walker or a cane or something like that, you think that they might need that. What should you do? Who should you call? What should you not do?
Brandy Archie
Okay, I think they needed a walking device because their balance is not looking good. Their walking is not looking good. The very first thing I'm gonna do is try to get an evaluation with a physical therapist. That's what I'm gonna do, because this is what they're expert at, right? It's analyze their gait pattern, determine if this can be rehabilitated, and if not, or if so, and also needing a device, and then in what situations we're gonna use that device. And while...
Walkers are very ubiquitous. You see them everywhere all the time. They're easy to access. That doesn't mean that that's the right scenario, the right thing that you need, even though you could get it. So blend and expert help you decide. It's covered by your insurance to see a physical therapist. So have them help you figure that out. The other thing is like, using an adaptive device is good. Clearly, I sell adaptive devices, right? I'm for them. But...
That is it. That's not the only way to solve a problem. And sometimes it has bad effects. So like if we, let's say we prescribe somebody, you say, let me get my mom a walker and she'll use it. Let's say she gets a walker. She relies on it more. She gets weaker and we're getting worse without like adding other inputs, like additional exercise or walking or figuring out why she's walking more fearfully. You know, so it's a complex situation and you should get a PT to help you figure what that next step should be. And hopefully to make the body stronger.
The other thing I would also do is try to encourage more movement and whatever format that that can take in a fun way because nobody likes to do exercises but there's lots of ways to get exercise and so I've tried to find ways to do that whether that's like hey do you want to go with me to the store and now walk a little bit more or you take a walk on the block or I don't know whatever is interesting that requires movement.
try to do more of it. The thing I would not do is simply go pick up a device that I think they need and give it to them. Because if you don't sit at the right height or it's not the right thing, we don't clear enough space in the home, it can be more of a hazard than a help. I mean, like a good example is when somebody has dementia or Alzheimer's, sometimes adding a device is actually a big fall risk, even though in other situations, they would be the perfect candidate for a walker. But for somebody who's not going to remember that or know how to use it well,
Brandy Archie
It might be a detriment. So don't just go pick up something and give it to them without getting some clear advice from somebody who's expert at it.
Emilia Bourland
Yeah, I'm so glad that you mentioned that last part that like, one, these are not like one size fits all recommendations or situations. It's basically, it's always an individualized recommendation. And again, if you have someone who has a cognitive impairment, you have someone who has dementia, you know, at a certain point, these folks are not necessarily capable of new learning anymore. So if you introduce an assistive device that someone has never used before, they're not going to be able to learn how to use it. It can increase their fall risk.
Brandy Archie
Okay.
Emilia Bourland
And it's going to give you nothing but a headache because you're going to be sitting there 12,000 times a day. Use your walker, use your walker. Get your walker, get your walker. And it's not going to sink in. yeah, great, great points. Amazing. All right, do you have another one for me?
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Pika Pika Walker, get your walker. Yes.
Brandy Archie
I do. Okay. So when I think about falls, I'm always thinking about when somebody's spending some time in the hospital and you got to wear those yellow socks. You got the thing on the door that says fall alert wrist, fall wrist, yellow band on, and they want to get up and use the bathroom because there's not enough people there to come help them use the bathroom when they need to. And so what should you do if your person is in some kind of facility?
Emilia Bourland
Uh-huh.
Emilia Bourland
Oof. Yeah.
Brandy Archie
and they won't stay in bed at the hospital and you know that they're at risk. How do you handle that?
Emilia Bourland
Oof, that is a really, really tough scenario. Partly that on their level of cognition, right? In terms of is this person who has no cognitive problems, they're at full mental capacity, they can make decisions on their own and they are capable of problem solving, new learning, all this stuff. Or is this someone who has a cognitive impairment or they have dementia?
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
or some other reason why they're not currently able to make good decisions. Maybe they're more disoriented in the situation because these do have different solutions. I will say that neither one of them are necessarily easy and partly that is because of the fact that we simply don't have enough bodies a lot of the time to provide the level of care and supervision that we need in healthcare. However,
Let me start with, let's say you have someone who they need to get up and go to the bathroom. They don't want to wait. or maybe, so this is a cognitively impaired person. Maybe they can't even remember they're supposed to push that silly little call light, right? Like, what is this thing? I don't know. I'm getting out of bed and I got to go to the bathroom and they're not going to follow the instructions. We want to really be strong advocates in that situation for having a one-to-one sitter in that room.
Brandy Archie
Okay.
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
for providing higher levels of supervision. Certainly things like bed alarms, chair alarms, these are good tools that we can use, but they also only work well if we can respond to them in an appropriate amount of time to get there before something happens. So this is probably like a wildly not popular answer, but the fact is sometimes people just need
one-to-one supervision if they're going to be able to prevent falls. Now, one of the things that we see more with the use of technology in hospitals and facilities is like camera monitoring in rooms. So a single nurse from their nurse's station can watch everyone. And if someone is getting up out of bed, they can send someone directly there. And so there are ways that we can help solve this problem with the current staffing issues that we have. But sometimes it's really up to you as a caregiver to make sure that you are
advocating for those solutions to be put in place or for that level of supervision to be provided. Because sometimes we can't just tell people what to do and expect that they're going to remember and follow it. In general, actually, cognitive impairment or no cognitive impairment, we can't just tell people what to do and expect them to always do those things, right? People have their own free will. They have their own opinions.
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
They are going to take things into their own hands and to a certain extent, we actually have to respect that. So let's go to this other scenario where we have someone who is in the hospital. They can't get up safely to use the restroom by themselves, but they need to get up and use the restroom. And they don't want to wet themselves in bed. They don't want to use the, they don't.
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
They want to have a bowel movement in the bed, which is totally understandable. And guess what? We don't want that to happen to them either. it is really important in this situation, for that person to, to be a good advocate for themselves. And part of that is being proactive in when you are pushing that call button for when you push that call light. So do not wait until there is an urgency or a sense to go.
Brandy Archie
Yeah.
Emilia Bourland
I really recommend to folks that they push that button on a schedule. If you know that you usually have to go every couple of hours, hit that call light every hour and a half and do not wait for you to have that sense of urgency before you hit it because you don't know that the care attendant, the nurse, the CNA, they have several people on that hall that they are having to take care of right then. And they might be in a situation where they just cannot immediately step away.
The same as you wouldn't want them to immediately step away from you in certain situations, they just can't go, they cannot leave the person that they're with in order to come meet your need immediately at the time. And that is just the reality of the situation. So plan ahead, set a timer on your phone or wherever, and set it to push that call light at a regular interval where you're not gonna have urgency. It's gonna give them enough time to get there. And then,
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
Whether or not you gotta go when they get there, get up and go. Empty that bladder. You know, just take care of it. This is also a really important thing to do to prevent learned incontinence, which can often happen when folks are not able to get up and use the restroom safely and they're not able to get assistance quickly enough to get up and out of bed. They just end up kind of like.
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
going in the bed because they don't have another choice. And that can lead to learned incontinence in the bladder and in the bowel. And we want to prevent that as much as possible. So setting your own timing and being a good advocate for yourself is really, important in these scenarios.
Brandy Archie
I think those are such strong answers and it really boils down to advocacy about whatever the person needs. The other thing I would add is that sometimes the facility environment creates the fall risk. And so if you know the person is, let's say they're cognitively with it and they're like, it doesn't matter when I push the call button and nobody comes or I don't know in enough time, what can we do in the environment to make it easier and safer to go to bathroom?
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie
Can I ask for a bedside commode so it's right there? Maybe they could be safe with standing and pivoting and going to the commode. Maybe it's clearing the pathways and putting the other things that the person needs on the other side of the bed so that there's not so much stuff on the way to the bathroom and we can create a situation in which it could be safe to walk in the bathroom. And also, you can also ask, hey, they seem decently OK to get up. Can we have somebody evaluate whether they can be independent in the room?
That is an actual designation inside of facilities. And a PT or OT would come and make sure that they've got the setup that they need in order to be independent and kind of give their stamp of approval to say, this person actually could get up and use the bathroom on their own. And so you can advocate for somebody to decide if whether that should be true or not. Because the default is everybody's a follow-up, everybody's staying in the bed, so somebody comes to help. And at some point, the goal is you get better. And so at some point, you're in the hospital stay.
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie
They might be able to be independent in the room and you just need to somebody to clear them for that. So I would just add that in there. What's the other, what is something that they should not do?
Emilia Bourland
So for someone who is completely cognitively intact, they should not climb over that bed rail. They should not climb over that bed rail when the pants hang in half off and the sock, one sock off and one sock on and do whatever it takes to get to the bathroom, right? To your point, I'm really glad that you added those comments in there because we can take steps.
Brandy Archie
Yeah
Emilia Bourland
Sometimes people are gonna do what they wanna do regardless. And we have to actually be respectful of that. People have the right to make their own decisions. How can we set up the environment to increase their chances of success as opposed and really think about that individual person and their needs as opposed to like what the setup usually is or what we think it should be, right? So that's a really strong point. I'm so glad that you brought that up. But yeah, we, again, we don't want to...
Brandy Archie
Thank
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
kind of sound like a broken record here, but we don't want to do nothing. We don't want to tell people, we really don't want to tell people just go in the bed unless there is really 100 % truly no other option. We really don't want to tell people to just go in the bed. I feel very, very strongly about this because the problems that it causes, again, in terms of learned incontinence, which can cause
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
all kinds of ongoing issues for folks. It actually can increase people's fall risk because of those incontinence issues carrying forward for a very long period of time. It increases your chance of wounds, infections, all kinds of things. So I guess those would be my big, those would be my big like, do not do this. You probably, I've gotta guess you have something helpful to add to that though. Cause I feel like I missed something.
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie
Yeah, I love that.
No, no, no, I was gonna say that. No, I think that's key. Like, don't, we shouldn't just be like, okay, with people just going on themselves, unless there's literally no option for dealing with that. You know, they are bed bound and they cannot get out of the bed safely, you know, without like a Hoyer lifter and a bunch of other stuff going on. Like, we should be initiating going up and going to the bathroom. That's it.
Emilia Bourland
Okay.
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
Yeah. All right. I think that was an excellent situation room.
Brandy Archie
Yeah, we hit the balls.
Emilia Bourland
We sure did, we sure did. If you enjoyed that, as we said at the beginning, I am sure that there are folks in your life, if not just you right now, who would benefit from having that information, please make sure that you're sharing this episode with them right after you download it. Make sure you're checking out some of our other wonderful episodes. We have, I just want to, I'm gonna brag about our podcast a little bit here, so bear with me, bear with me. Y'all, we have like a resident pharmacist.
Brandy Archie
Do it.
Emilia Bourland
We have a resident hospice nurse. And when I say that, I mean, we have these recurring guests that keep coming on. We have physician who's a recurring guest. We have a hospice nurse. We have a pharmacist. We have had multiple death doulas on. There is such a richness of content and expertise. Take some time. Find the episodes that meet your needs. I guarantee there are episodes here that resonate with.
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
the things that other people in your life are going through too. And our goal is to deliver to you really truly valuable information, whether it's from us or from the guests that are on the show. So take some time, check out our episodes, please download them. Why? Because when you download them, it helps to make sure that other people are finding the podcast easier. So we really appreciate that. Make sure to like and subscribe.
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie
and come back and hear us next week.
Emilia Bourland
and come back and hear us next week. All right, we'll see you next time right here on Care Lab. Bye.
Brandy Archie
Bye everybody.
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