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Summary
In this special bonus episode of CareLab, Brandy Archie, Emilia Bourland, and guest Justin Oakley discuss the journey from occupational therapist to entrepreneur. Guests Justin Oakley and Emilia Bourland share their experiences of leaving clinical practice to start their own businesses. They discuss the motivations behind their decisions, the challenges of finding customers, the importance of persistence, and the rewards of business ownership. The episode provides valuable insights and encouragement for OTs considering entrepreneurship, highlighting the skills and mindset needed for success.
Key Takeaway
- OTs are natural entrepreneurs – Their problem-solving and adaptability make them well-suited for business.
- Rejection is part of the process – Success comes from persistence and learning from setbacks.
- Relationships drive business growth – Networking and educating others help build trust and attract customers.
- Entrepreneurship offers freedom – Running a business allows for flexibility but requires dedication.
-
Start before you're "ready" – Writing down ideas and taking small steps help turn a vision into reality.
Transcript
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Hey everybody, welcome to this extra special bonus episode of Care Lab is specifically targeted at occupational therapists. And so we are so glad to have our guest, Justin Oakley here. If you haven't already listened to his episode that we did talking about home modifications, please do tone into that too. But this one, this is a special one because we want to talk to the OTs who have thought about maybe going into private practice or entrepreneurship. So welcome everybody.
Justin Oakley
Thank
Emilia Bourland
Yeah, thanks so much for putting this list of very important questions and everything together here, Brandy. I'm really excited for this episode because I think you, well, obviously, you know, I think that OTs are natural entrepreneurs and most of them just don't know it yet. And so this is a really, really exciting topic.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Sweet. Let's not put the carpet before the horse though, because I think the people are here because of y'all. And so give us a brief overview. We'll start with you, Justin, of like, why did you leave clinical practice to go into entrepreneurship? What was your trigger point and why did you do it?
Justin Oakley
That's a great question, Brandy. So yeah, was essentially identifying the need in the community, performing my job and my role as an occupational therapist, as a clinician in the skilled nursing facility setting. I was performing my role quite well, collaborating with all the other disciplines in attempt to get folks home was our goal. Transition from short-term rehab back home.
And I just happened to identify a need in the community of taking it a step further and being able to provide the home modification installations that we were talking about as clinicians. it really, the trigger was identifying the need and saying, wow, there could be something else. There's this opportunity here that's not fulfilled currently in the market.
And we joke and say, you know, the market was literally on my lap because when we're practicing squat pivot transfers, they're on my knee, they're on my lap and the market, told my partner, the market is here. The community needs our skill set. And so that was the trigger point. So for anyone out there, it's identifying the need in the market that's not fulfilled.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
The Trampers, yeah.
Justin Oakley
and you have the skillset to do it. And that's that entrepreneurial spirit, that right side brain, that creativity, that every OT listening and watching right now, you have it. You wouldn't be an OT. You gotta have the creativity and the problem solving and then the caring. You need to have the passion and problem solving for any business or any business venture or journey. So you OTs, you have it.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
the problem solving.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Mm-hmm.
Justin Oakley
There's a lot of settings in OT, but we're discovering, like we'll talk about, there's a lot of outside the box, non-traditional, yes, opportunities out there. It's a great, yeah.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
opportunity.
Yeah. Amelia, what about you? What was your trigger point that said, I need to do this thing differently, use my OT skills differently.
Emilia Bourland
So I think there were a couple of different things. The real big thing was initially that I was just feeling frustrated by the gaps in our healthcare system and feeling limited in my own practice in the way that I could address the needs that I saw people had in a traditional clinical practice. like, don't get me wrong, I actually, I love practicing clinically. I love.
being in SNFs, I love being in the hospital. Like, I really enjoy those things. But as a clinician whose job it is to see the whole picture and put all of the pieces together and to address all of the needs in a holistic matter, that just wasn't happening for me. And I, because of the way that our healthcare system is structured. And so I felt compelled. I knew that I could do a
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
better job if I were able stretch my wings a little bit in this other way. And so that was the primary reason. And then I would say the secondary reason is one that I think a lot of occupational therapists feel at a certain point in their career. You you've been a practicing therapist for 10, 15, 20 years, and you get to this point in your career where you're bringing so much expertise and so much value to the table, but it doesn't feel valued back, you know?
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Yeah.
Emilia Bourland
there's nowhere to go in a clinician unless you go Yeah, you become a manager anymore and it's just a you kind of start to fee a lot of clinicians just that there's a lack of
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
You're rehab manager. Yeah.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
and patient.
Emilia Bourland
in America. And so, you know, that was that was really like a very secondary concern for me. I think if I hadn't had that primary initial drive to say, and I'm the kind of person who if I see something that I think I can fix, I kind of can't help it. Like once once that once that B is in my bonnet, I'm like, okay, I have to go do this thing now. So yeah, but really, those were that first one seeing that
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Gotta try.
Emilia Bourland
the way that things operated just weren't allowing people to get what they needed. And then the second one, much more minor, but a real frustration, like, where do you go from here? I want to be valued.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Yeah, that is very similarly my story. It's just like seeing a problem, wanting to fix it, trying to fix it from within my clinical role in the medical model and realizing it was just not enough. It wasn't good enough. can't unsee the whole picture. So I felt like I had to go try to do something different. And so I think that OTC problems all the time, right? Because that's what our job is, right? Our job is to identify where the holes are and like backwards chain that to figure out.
Emilia Bourland
Okay.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Like what's the root cause analysis problem of this? And then what tools do I have in my tool belt to help solve this? So we all do this, but we all don't go into business. So tell me what was the thing that made you feel like you could and need to do this? Because there's a lot of risk involved, right? Like you're a good OT, you got a job, you got a paycheck coming in, but starting a business is like a whole separate thing. And I don't know about you, but I didn't have a ton of education about starting a business.
in school. So it's not like I had any like background to say that I would be able to do this. So tell me, I'm gonna go back to you Amelia, what made you feel confident or maybe didn't feel confident? What was the other trigger that was like, yes, I'm gonna go do this even though don't know anything about it.
Emilia Bourland
I have to give a lot of credit to my husband. He was really, really supportive. And like when I said that I wanted, I was thinking about trying, he was, had confidence in me and was very supportive and said like, yeah, you should, you should go do this. You should give it a try. Like I, I, I'm a hundred percent behind you. And so I couldn't have done it with like that kind of support from my family. I think that the other thing was though, that as a therapist, have
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Mmm.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Yeah.
Emilia Bourland
confidence in myself and particularly as an occupational therapist, I believe that I can learn things and that I can solve problems. And even if it's a hard problem, I believe in my capacity to figure it out, to get the information that I need and to come up with solutions. And that is integral to both the person that I am, but it's also been integral to my entire professional life as an occupational therapist. So in some ways, was it
knew, did I have to go and get like a lot of education and did I learn a ton of things? Absolutely. But I was also applying the same exact skill set that I knew I was really good at. And I was just applying it in a slightly different way.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Mmm.
Mmm. Yeah. What'd I do, Justin?
Justin Oakley
Yeah, no, it's another great question. loved Amelia, your first answer. I could copy and paste and make that my answer. Brady, you're brandy yours as well. But it was one thing that you mentioned Amelia during your first response, which is it really ties into my why I felt comfortable. It was that ceiling. The only place I was probably lead OT, senior OT supervisor.
my next move and I was able to be friends with everybody at that level. Next move was exiting the friend zone and becoming the minute maid. The how many minutes did you get? That was back when I don't know what rugs are anymore, but that was good.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Yeah.
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Yep.
Emilia Bourland
Yeah, yeah. Back, no they're not, but back with rug levels. Yeah. Did you get your ultra high?
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Yeah.
Justin Oakley
And I didn't want to be the runner. That was my only step up. And I was cozy. I left my iPad there at the clinic. I had a two mile commute. And there weren't sweaters and shoes and ties. There was scrubs.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Yeah, that's it.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
yeah, your day ended, you ended.
Emilia Bourland
yeah, that was great. That part of the day ending was wonderful.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Grubs. Don't even have to think.
Justin Oakley
I had three siblings, black and blue. We were black and blue in rehab team, know, ironically, right? I hit the ceiling though, I felt. I felt the only other place to go was to supervisor. And then everyone's just afraid of me. And monetarily, I wasn't much higher. You know, also, I'm going to steal your answer as well. I get emotional with this. If family, if I didn't have family support, I'd be nowhere. My spouse, you know,
All in, all support, go get it, go get it. My business partner, he took the leap with me. He was running his own business that he put on hold and joined this with me. My father, I'll never forget, think I went to a Chamber of Commerce event in the morning, snuck it in, went back, I got back to the clinic at nine o'clock to treat patients and I'm sitting in the...
Probably been trying to market the business for six months at that point. And keep in mind, like you guys, when you first had your idea, you thought you had the cure for cancer in a bottle and that everybody on the planet should be calling you and saying, help me, help me. But I don't want to be too cocky here, but I imagine the phone didn't ring at first for a while. That was me. And I was so frustrated.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Yes, exactly.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Thanks.
Justin Oakley
And I said, Dad, I'm going to quit. got nothing. I'm to go back in this nursing home, put my scrubs back on and ride into the sunset and have a you know what? Have a damn good career and raise my family. had a one year old at the time. And he said, no, you're not. And I'm going to cry. But he said, you're not. He's like, you have to taste already. So I know you and you've tasted it.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Mmm.
Justin Oakley
Now you work for yourself and you can help a lot more people in what you've created, what you and Michael created. He said, that's cute. You can tell me anything you want. I just, you know, he wasn't telling me I couldn't. He was saying, I just know it. Cute. You can lie to yourself, but you're not going to quit. You're going to continue. And I didn't. And I kept at it. And I thought I had the cure for cancer and that everyone should just start calling us. But it took time.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
I don't believe you. Yeah.
Justin Oakley
So that's another message for the entrepreneurs out there. Your idea, the beautiful idea you have, it's beautiful no matter how long it takes and no matter how many people you need to tell before someone listens. It took a grab bar job for the person to tell the clinician that Oakley Home Access did a great job. And it's time, time, trust. The big deal for a healthcare provider
Emilia Bourland
Yeah.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
and over again.
Justin Oakley
to say call this person. It's a huge deal. And I don't want to minimize the hundreds of places now we go and thank that trust us. It's a big deal for them to So trust takes time. It's huge when we're talking about business. But to directly answer your question, the ceiling and family is the only reason I was able to take the launch.
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Interesting time.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Yeah. So what I hear from both of you really is that the drive to solve the problem was stronger than your risk aversion. And you felt like this fight, there was a small, maybe huge fire inside of you that said, this has to be solved. I see a way to solve this. I got all these barriers. I don't know what to do. I got to find customers, all the things. But I know that I have the skills in order to maybe not.
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Maybe I don't already have the skills to have a thriving business, but I got the skills to figure it out. And having that plus support, which can come in a variety of shapes and sizes, whether it's from spouses or parents or business partners or other entrepreneurs in your community, there's just so many ways to gain support. You just gotta tell the people what you're trying to do. Those things helped galvanize you to get started. But then I love, that you went into saying like,
how challenging it was at first to find customers, I did the same thing. I spent all my time doing all my internal stuff, make sure my processes were gonna be the way I wanted to, we built a software system and did all this stuff. And I said, as soon as I get perfect, I'm gonna hang my shingle and everybody's gonna come to me and call on the phones and we're going off the hook. And that did not happen initially. And so couldn't be further from the truth exactly. And I was so disappointed. So like the question I have for you is,
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Emilia Bourland
Couldn't be further from the truth probably, actually.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
How did you go about finding customers? And I want you to try to give, like some answers are specific to your business, but also like, what's the general answer to that for anybody in whatever kind of business? Cause you all have, we all have three different businesses as OTs. So what was it that helped you find your first set of customers? Justin.
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm.
Justin Oakley
So my goal, yeah, so thank you. So my goal was to, it all came back to empathy, is put myself in clinicians' shoes and put myself in their scrubs and say, am I, like if I had access to this company, wouldn't it make my job easier?
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Mmm.
Justin Oakley
Where are you going to get? Where am going to get? Yeah, you're talking about grab bars. Where am I going to get installed? Call this company would make my job a lot easier. So I knew I was my facility was one out of 85 in little tiny Rhode Island, 85 nursing homes with 50 plus beds. So I knew right there it was going to be about relationships and communicating to all of those therapists.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Mm-hmm.
Justin Oakley
that there was a resource that they'd never thought of or heard of before, or maybe thought of, but never did, that could help them finish what they started, provide the install of what they were educated on. So no matter what the business is, it's the people that care, that wanna know whether they know they need you or not. You're identifying the problem that you're solving. And my partner says it all the time.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Mm-hmm.
Justin Oakley
We're showing them how we can make their job easier. And so my pilgrimage was create relationships with every therapist on the plan in the state, our in our service area, and let them know we exist and we can help them. And it takes time for all of them to trust you. The fact that I put occupational therapy or occupational therapist right on our on our rat card was everything.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Mm-hmm.
Justin Oakley
And I would sniff out, would literally sniff out the rehab gyms. I'd find them. I'd worked them. I knew where they were. I'd be able to find the gyms. And then I'd give the card and then people would be documenting, yeah, all equipment, great, that's cute. Yeah, we got DME too. Wait, you send an OT to the house? Wait, what? And then they put their documentation down and listen. Because they know we now speak the same language. The end result is something, yeah, they've heard about Grab Barred. They know they're in.
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm.
Justin Oakley
So that was, yeah, that's my perspective on that.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Yeah, yeah. What about you, Amelia?
Emilia Bourland
I don't know that I have a better answer than that. think that like empathy and relationships and understanding your customer are probably the most important things you can do. But I think that what I would add to that, maybe it's an addition, maybe not really, is you just have to be willing to go out and talk to people about what you do. You have to be willing to do the education. In the case of higher standards caregiver training,
talking to largely people who don't actually know what occupational therapists are or what they do. And so there's a big learning curve there to begin with, but you can't be afraid to go build relationships, to talk to people, to put yourself out there. It can feel really, really scary at first, right? Because I think one of the scariest things for all of us is the possibility that we're gonna be rejected. And if you're gonna start a business, I'm just gonna tell you right away, you're gonna get rejected so much.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Mm-mm.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
you're going to get rejected so much that guess what? At a certain point, you're not going to care anymore about being rejected. it's going to and then every once in a while, someone is not going to reject you and they're going to see what you're bringing to the table and see the value. And then you've got a fan and you've really got something to grow from there. But you just can't you can't be afraid to put yourself out there and meet people and talk to people and just keep going. Keep being consistent.
This is something that I said to someone just yesterday talking about growing business actually. And it's the same thing if you want to stretch out a contracture that has a firm end field so you think you can get it out there. It is low load, prolonged pressure over it. Consistent pressure over a long period of time will move things forward. So you just have to keep that in mind. Like just
Justin Oakley
you
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Yeah.
Justin Oakley
F
Emilia Bourland
Just keep going, just keep putting one foot in the other. Don't be afraid, talk to people, make relationships. You never know where a relationship is gonna lead you, right? Like Brandy, actually I don't, how did we, yeah, okay. And you just never know where a relationship is gonna lead you, who knows?
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Another OT. Monica.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Monica from Arizona.
Emilia Bourland
You could meet someone you start a podcast with them. You just don't. But yeah, just don't be afraid. Build relationships. Don't get turned off by rejection. Just keep going.
Justin Oakley
Yeah, you never know.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Exactly. You just don't.
Justin Oakley
Yeah, Amelia, I think that's a huge addition. It's it's being OK with hearing no is really important. And let that fire you up like let fuel your fire. The no, because when you hear no, that means you can you can change your you can adjust and you can learn from it. Learn from and you know what's even worse than a no. A no is fine.
Emilia Bourland
a lot.
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm.
Justin Oakley
But what I would get more than no, because no, anytime I, because I'm not selling anything. So anytime I gave a card, I can honestly say zero people said no. What's worse than no is meh. Meh, Knowing that, knowing that the rat card I gave them is just going right into the trash after. Meh. Like that.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
No, take your card back.
Emilia Bourland
Of course, of course, yeah.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Apathy.
Emilia Bourland
apathy is actually way worse than no.
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm.
Justin Oakley
fired me up so much. I had an intern with me one day and I got into the, we were supposed to have an in-service, a little thing booked and I was so excited to pour the passion and it was a lifeline center and I was so excited. I, know, it's so applicable. Our missions are aligned. And then when I got there, the leader had not heard about the meeting. There was miscommunication. My rep didn't communicate correctly with their rep.
And she was just really meh about it. And like, no, I don't know really how this would align with us. I don't really see that need much. Maybe we'll reschedule. We're not going to have to do. We're not going to do this today. I got in that truck so upset, so fired up, but it inspired me to just keep pounding the pavement, keep sharing our message. And I don't I'm not kidding you. The new management from Lifeline.
just emailed me from that exact place yesterday, I promise you, looking to create a relationship. And that was six, I promise you that was six years ago. And I've held like, in my heart, sent, it really the no or the meh indifference, apathy you said Brandy, that fuels me. So it's like, okay, what am I going to say? What am I going to add to this service delivery, the education that's going to
Emilia Bourland
I'm
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Yeah.
Justin Oakley
blow everyone's hair back and they're not gonna be able to say meh. If they love anyone and care about anyone, they'll say more than meh. And it was my goal. that, no, hearing rejection is so vital. Like you have to be able to deal with that.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Thanks.
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
And it's not easy to deal with it, but it just gets easier over time. The only thing you can do is just keep going. Like you said, you were at that place six years ago. Do you know how many people I have seen come and go in and out of business in that time? I've been in business for that long too. And like, who's been consistent? Brandi is still here doing her OT stuff, doing adaptive equipment. We might have changed business name, but we're still, people can call my same number. We're still here, even though they haven't like made a referral in a long time.
Old patients call us back like it's the longevity piece that's really important and I know it's so hard to think about that at the beginning when you haven't even started but what I think the real Actionable point of which I'll just said is to get customers you need to build relationships Do you need to have a business to build relationships? You do not and so you can be building relationships right now
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm.
Justin Oakley
Thank you.
Justin Oakley
Yes!
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
You can be talking about your ideas right now before you make the leap to say, hey, I hung my shingle and said practice is now open. That way when you do get started, you can start at a little faster clip than maybe we all started, you know, because you've already been leading into that. Like my first business was a private practice called accessible living. And I told you I waited to tell anybody about it until I felt like I had my ducks in a row. Well, when we decided to change that in-person private practice into
Justin Oakley
Yes.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
um, ask Sammy and be a digital place that we could reach more people. I started talking about that as soon as I was sure I was going to do it. And that was actually two years before we even had the site launched. And so by that time, I already had people tuned into that. And so we started a much faster clip than we ever did at Accessible Living. And so you got to be willing to share. mean, there could have been a whole bunch of things that came up between those two years that we didn't actually do it, but partly.
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm.
Justin Oakley
Thanks.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
telling people about it made me also do it, right? Cause I have a little bit of accountability. I said, good idea. I'm getting good feedback. so we got to make the thing happen. So yeah, that's what you do.
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm.
Justin Oakley
And don't be afraid. Don't be afraid. You talk about saying it, talking about talking about talking about it before you do it. Don't be afraid of someone stealing your idea. Because if it was easy, everybody would. Everybody. So don't be afraid. Your idea is your idea. Don't be afraid of someone taking it and doing. I can't count the amount of.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Yeah.
Emilia Bourland
Yeah.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Everybody would do it.
Justin Oakley
folks that have said it's usually the wife is an OT and they have a husband that's a handyman or contractor. And they say to me, my God, I thought about this idea a hundred times, but I never did it. And I said, I know it's hard. It's really hard. It's hard. I don't blame you. It's hard. One other little piece. And we've been talking about how a hard business is. I want to give one piece of advice. Yeah.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Mm-hmm. yeah.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Yeah.
Emilia Bourland
Yeah, we should probably probably not scare everyone away by just talking about how hard it is. This is supposed to encourage OTs to go into business, right?
Justin Oakley
You're a good kid. You're a great kid.
So here's my one sentence of to counter that, yes, it supports the fact that it is very hard and challenging. But if you're an OT, right, or Randy, I'll ask you, if you were to shut down the Care Lab podcast tomorrow and then the next day ask Sammy had to shut down for whatever reason, the internet shut down.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Okay. huh.
Justin Oakley
You think you'd be able to find a job as a practicing occupational therapist tomorrow? After that, within five or 10 minutes, I think of recruiting staff would, you'd have text messages saying, do you want this opportunity? Yeah.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
The next day after that, yes. I can always go back to do that.
Emilia Bourland
that afternoon.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
I could just scroll back and be like, yeah, I got this message today. Let me just message them back. Yes, there's so many OT jobs.
Justin Oakley
You have nothing to risk. You will always have a job in multiple settings waiting for you. I told my supervisor at the rehab, when I told her about my idea, she said, man, this sounds like the first conversation of you not retiring, but of resigning. And I said, listen, yes, it might be, but I am far more valuable out in the community as a resource.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Mm-hmm.
Justin Oakley
And I'm a great OT, but you're gonna replace me in 10 minutes once I lose. And she said, yeah, you're probably right. And you know what? They replaced me in five minutes after I left. It was no time. So as much as we're saying how challenging it is.
Miss a mind. Low risk.
Emilia Bourland
Something that you just said that I loved so much, Justin, is like, you weren't afraid to say, like, I'm a great OT. And I think that that is something that sometimes occupational therapists feel hesitant to kind of own their own value and own their own expertise and say it out loud to people. No, if you're an occupational therapist, if you're a great occupational therapist, you should say, I'm a great occupational therapist.
Justin Oakley
Yep.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
and
Justin Oakley
Yeah.
Emilia Bourland
These are the things that I do for people. No one else is doing these things. Like this is the value that I bring to the table. No one else is afraid to own their value. You think a lawyer walks into the room and says, yeah, I mean, I'm kind of okay at this, know? They say, because I'm, exactly, exactly. So.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Nobody else.
Justin Oakley
They say I'm expensive. They say I'm expensive.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Because I am great at doing this type of vlog.
Emilia Bourland
There's no one else on earth who is afraid, I think, I say that probably there are, but I feel like there's, are very few professionals who are as highly educated, as extremely competent, as big an experts as occupational therapists are, who are afraid to own their own value. We have to get over that. Take your credit. That doesn't mean it's not a team effort. That doesn't mean we don't collaborate.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Yep. Yep. And that's.
Justin Oakley
Yep.
Emilia Bourland
That doesn't mean that we don't celebrate other professionals or disciplines and what they bring to the table. Obviously we do. There are amazing other professionals and disciplines out there. We celebrate them. Celebrate yourself too.
Justin Oakley
Yes, absolutely.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Exactly. And that's part of how I got customers was I decided I was going to set myself up as an expert in this area, in this field, right? And I decided to use education, as you mentioned, Amelia, as a way to get relationships with people to have them trust me. I'm like, listen, here's all my knowledge. I'm happy to share it with you other OTs because I want you to have resources and...
Emilia Bourland
Absolutely.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Do your job easier and be better. And if you decide that using my service or referring your patients to my service is effective for you, then that's great. But I also want to make sure that you have this education because I've been doing this a long time and I'm very good at it. And so, and I want you to feel confident and good at this part of OT too, if you're interested in it. like lean, you should lean into that because that is what your superpower and your value is, right? Like we go and look at things and see them in a completely different way than pretty much every other profession.
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm.
Justin Oakley
Yes.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
We come up with the strategies that are actionable and workable in whatever setting you are in, whatever kind of patients you are working with. And that is of, and because it has to do with ADLs, which is something everybody does every day, and we sometimes are dealing with very benign things, we think that they are easy and simple and they're not. These solutions, nobody else came up with it till you. You're life-changing. You are life-changing. And if you feel like you have a life-changing solution that...
works better outside the medical model or just outside of your current practice setting, you should do it. Yeah, you should share. It's your obligation actually to share it and make our system better. So I'm so glad you brought that up. So I want to change this a little bit and say like, how has being in business impacted your work life balance and like how your life runs? Because, you know, we think about the jobs we take sometimes, most of the time based on how it interacts with
Justin Oakley
Share it.
Yeah.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
the other things about our life. And so your business is first only your own job and then hopefully it turns into a business that you're not only owning your own job. So tell me a little bit about how you've seen maybe pros and cons, good things and bad things about being in business for the rest of your life. Amelia.
Emilia Bourland
okay, so definitely there are pros and cons to this. One of the things that I used to love about just being in traditional clinical practice is like when I was on vacation, I was on vacation. And when I left work for the day, I was done. And I didn't have to think about it. Like, it's not to say that I never did, but there there weren't more tasks to be completed once I wrapped up my documentation and I clocked out for the day. And of course, that's not the case when you're in business.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
It's been a while since I've been on vacation where I have not had to at least be checking in with emails or, you know, doing a couple things here and there. So that can be harder.
Justin Oakley
you
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
But it's also not been a long time since you've been on vacation too. You might have been checking your emails, but you've been on vacation.
Emilia Bourland
It's also, that's, no, that's a great point. I don't have to ask anyone when I can go on vacation. If it's a good time for my family, I don't have to get permission from anyone. I can just go and I will make the arrangements in my business that need to be made for me to go on vacation. That's been really wonderful. I've had, even though I might not always work the same exact hours, but I have the flexibility of my schedule in order to
Justin Oakley
You
Emilia Bourland
be there for my kids when my kids need me to be there. I get to pick them up from school every day. I get to drop them off every day. These are things that are really important to me and I think have been very beneficial overall in my lifestyle. And honestly, again, my husband's been so incredibly supportive through the whole process. It's been great for us. It's been great for our marriage. I can't even pinpoint all the reasons why that is, but I think it's just, it's been good for my family overall.
to, it's been good for my kids, I think, to see mom go try and do this really hard thing and see how I handle success and see how I handle failure. And like, I have to walk the walk with them every day with this kind of thing. I can't just talk it, you know? So I think that it's been really beneficial overall for, for, you know, a ton of reasons.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Yeah. How about you, Justin?
Justin Oakley
Yeah, no, that was great. Again, I could probably copy paste that answer. The one sentence I will say that I say to everyone when they say, what's it like running your own business? I say, well, you never punch in, but you never punch out.
Emilia Bourland
Yeah.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Yeah
Justin Oakley
They're asking me to go on vacation, but it's always there on vacation. I wouldn't trade it for the world. It's literally, my father, I grew up, my father had a custodial business. So was commercial cleaning, carpet cleaning, emergency water removal, things like that. He lived that lifestyle. I saw that lifestyle of entrepreneur, business person.
That's why he said it to me when I was in the truck and then I was weeping that day. He's like, you've got the taste. And that taste was that lifestyle. The ability to not punch in, to go on vacation when you need to, to go pick up your kid when he's sick at school, to have a dentist appointment at noon. Why not? I'm going to after this, I'm going to go walk my dog because I can and I'm still going to be
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
he knows the taste too, because he's done it.
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm.
Justin Oakley
on my emails and probably execute three things during the five, 10 minute walk. Cause I can and I didn't take time off of my, my punch in position. I wouldn't trade it for the world for the flexibility. albeit the pressures are significant, but I wouldn't change the world having that flex. It's made my family life incredible that I can just say yes to everything and
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Mm-hmm.
Justin Oakley
Work around it. Work around it. Still work my butt off, never punch out. I'll send emails at midnight sometimes. I'll wake up in the middle of the night and have stuff on my mind and send it, and I wouldn't if I was in scrubs punching a time clock. But it's because I care and it's passionate. It doesn't feel like work when you love it. And it affords you the ability to not ask to go on vacation. Go when it's convenient for you.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Yeah.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Hmm.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Are you in here?
Justin Oakley
but still in our business.
Emilia Bourland
Ooh, ooh, can I add one thing to that? It is so great to never have to ask permission to just solve a problem or do something differently. It is like, like I would, used to go to work every day and I'd see how maybe things weren't, could be better at the hospital or could be better, better at the rehab room. And I would like have these big ideas, but I didn't really have a way to, make that change. Not without.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Yes.
Justin Oakley
Yeah
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Mm-hmm.
Justin Oakley
I'm gonna do a click.
Emilia Bourland
like really going through a giant bureaucratic process and organization. And I just wasn't super interested in doing that at that time, right? But when I'm my own boss and I'm in my own business, if I see something's not working correctly, I just change it. If I need to offer something that I'm not offering now that is a service that people need, I can just do that.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
A lot of work.
Emilia Bourland
I just make that decision. I don't have to ask anyone for it. And so like the speed at which you can accomplish things and maybe, you know, maybe some of it works, some of it doesn't, but if you're going to fail, you fail fast, you know, and if you're going to succeed, you succeed fast. And like, that's awesome. And it's really exciting and fun to always be able to be doing that.
Justin Oakley
I'll tell you that the four gals in my office wish that I didn't have that type of ability to change things all the time. Because it changed. Things change. When we hire folks, we say, how do you do with adversity and change and adjustments? Because the last thing we say in this company is, well, that's the way we've always done it. That's we stop growth in our world.
Emilia Bourland
Hahaha
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Things change.
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm. No.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Yeah, no.
Justin Oakley
And there's no blueprint for my business, your business, or your business. You're creating it out of nothing. So you're changing protocols all the time as you learn. So that's how we have to train our staff is that we might change protocols every day. It's not because we don't know what we're doing. It's because we're learning and we're literally paving the way to try to create a blueprint as we go. yeah, that ability to change, I never thought of that of wow.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Mm-hmm.
Justin Oakley
When you identify problems when you're working for someone, it's, yeah, there's a suggestion box at the hospital, maybe. You are the suggestion box. Let's go. You can make a difference. And that's great. And we try to reflect that on our 20-person staff that the door, even though it's physically closed, you can always open it. And we want the feedback. We want to know how we can do better so we can change. So that's a great answer.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Yeah.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
I liken it to say like one thing that you both said about reasonings for jumping into business was hitting a ceiling in your professional growth. And the thing that you get as an entrepreneur is there is no ceiling. You can do as much as you want to do with your business. You can change it as much as you want. You can switch how you use your entrepreneurial skills. And there's no failure in that because all of it is learnings, right? Like if for some reason Oakley Home Access didn't work out in the way that you
paired an OT with a contractor, you don't have to go back to clinical practice. You can say, I learned from this that actually what I need to do is blah, blah, blah. All right, I'm changing this business. I'm making a new name for this business. I'm doing it differently. And you can just keep going. And so that level of flexibility slash ability to just like iterate and grow means you have no ceiling. And so that's why it doesn't feel necessarily like work. Like it might sound off putting to be like,
I'm always checking in with them. I'm always checking in. I'm a team or there's always stuff that's going on. But it is not work when it feels like a mission and a calling and that it something that you're reaching for some bigger higher goal, whatever that is, even if that does change. I have had students ask me in the past, like, or people just in general, like how hard is it to go to grad school? Right. Like, I don't know if I like school that much. And I was like, you know, I've always been a good student.
But I worked really hard at being a good student. But what I noticed when I went to OT school was school was easy because I really liked the top. Now I was actually going to classes and every single class I like, it wasn't just like, oh, I like anatomy and undergrad and I did good at that class. It was like every single class was something that I wanted to learn about. And I feel the exact same way about business. It's like, it's not the same as working at a place. Working at a place like fine, I work hard, I did a good job, I was a great OT, I am a great OT. But in business, it's all my baby. And so,
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
I wanna see my baby grow and develop. I don't get tired of doing that, you know? And so that makes being an entrepreneur, those are the keen benefits, I think of it. And along with all the other things that y'all said, cause I definitely can double click on both of those things. So let's say we have convinced somebody, one out of a hundred people that they're gonna start a business. Tell me, just give them like one thing, what's the first thing they should do to just
Justin Oakley
Yeah.
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
How do I even get started? What should I do?
Emilia Bourland
Oh, I think for me personally, like writing, starting to write it down is a really helpful process. Again, like you'd have a lot of different thoughts swirling in your head and different ideas. For me, the process of actually starting to write down what you want to do and your plan to do it and how that's going to work helps to like gel all of those things together and helps you to
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Mmm.
Emilia Bourland
see what your initial first steps would be. And that's free. It's simple to do. You don't have to call a lawyer. You don't have to start your LLC. If you've got these ideas, just start writing it down. See what takes shape there. And I think that's a great place to really excessively get started.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
just start.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
What do think, Justin?
Justin Oakley
I couldn't agree more. think writing down, I'm a Gen X elder millennial, we'll say, so I'm the ultimate hybrid of writing everything down and then digitizing it. writing it down, getting it out there, I'll just add a little bit to that. In those terms of getting it out there, it's exactly, I agree 100%, it's writing down the who, the what, the where, and the why.
And you'll notice I started with the who because we're all about people. Who you're helping, who cares and who's going to do it. So whether it's yourself by yourself or a team of etc. Who is the person that cares? Meaning what settings? Who's going to be your market relationships? And then who the end result, the end user, who's going to get the actual benefit from it? So who, what, where, why?
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm.
Justin Oakley
Just like you're saying, Amelia, writing it down, getting it out there, then it's solid and it's something, then it's something tangible when you have it down, whether it's on a Google Doc or your legal pad. Yeah, it's just getting it out there. That's exactly the way to start it out. I started out on a legal pad and I wrote down every organization that had funding for home modifications based on my, Amelia, you got the ECHMP, based on the Southern California.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Mm-hmm.
Justin Oakley
Gerientology class. They told me, part of the course was, find out in your state everywhere that has funding and report on it. Now, in Little Rhode Island, I had the least to report on, but it was inspirational that there was stuff there. And I started down the line and I filled legal pads of people to call. But yeah, that's it. Writing it down is, it makes it real, you know?
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
Yep.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Yeah.
Emilia Bourland
Do you remember Justin in that course? Because by the way, that's not limited to OTs. There are lots of different professionals who go and get that. But remember, you have to do a task analysis early in that course. And of course, OTs, you turn in your task analysis, it's hundreds of steps long. Because we thought, that's our job, is to think about all that. It's actually one of our unique things that we do is OTs is task analysis, right?
Justin Oakley
no.
Justin Oakley
Yes.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
We thought about all the steps.
Justin Oakley
Breakdown, yeah.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
And so right away the professor emails me back and they're like, you're an OT, aren't you?
Justin Oakley
Alright. Of course.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Like yes, we've done this many times in school.
Emilia Bourland
like five steps to get this egg out of the fridge or whatever it is or something like that. Did you have that same experience where they like, you're an OT?
Justin Oakley
Yeah, it's that perspective. It's just the way of looking at things in the holistic nature that, yeah, can turn a two-step task into 25 steps because we're looking at the whole picture. Well, how cold is it out? If it's 20 degrees, that's going to take her longer to get the egg out of the fridge. She might want gloves on. don't know. You know, like, yeah, totally a different perspective. All of it from the...
I remember one whole course was the acceptance of it. Meaning what we're talking about today, making it a commodity, breaking down the barriers. That's what I learned, the comfort and convenience phrase that I use every day. And us OTs, we have a different way of speaking to folks and educating folks sometimes. So that sense of empathy really came through versus the interior designer trying to...
Emilia Bourland
Mm.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Yeah.
Justin Oakley
work on acceptance with a loved one. We were just in a far better position and equipped with tools using therapeutic use of self and things like that. Establishing therapeutic rapport and things like that is big advantage for us. So yeah, a lot of that class, it was not named towards OTs, but we had an advantage in the class for sure.
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Yeah.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
when you're first time learning those concepts and those concepts are keen to business. I I therapeutic rapport and approach. That's your relationship building skills, right? And like coming at it from whoever you're reaching out to perspective, right? And so if you, so first of all, the task analysis, this is what you're going to do for your business too, right? You need to like take that exact, that exact same approach to be like, I want to serve this client. What is, break that all the way down. What is it that they need? Who are they talking to? Who do I need to talk to to get to talk to them? That's.
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
That's exactly what you're doing when you're writing this down. And if you are an academic type or you need more structure than what they already just gave you, there's a book called the Business Model Canvas. And so what we're really talking about is a business plan. That's what we're talking about. But in the old days, maybe, a business plan was a 40-page document where you detailed everything out and you never went back to read it.
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
But the Business Model Canvas is a different way of doing that with sticky notes and like a big piece of paper. And you can get the book, get the book from your library, read it, buy it, or you can just go online and search Business Model Canvas and you'll find a whole bunch of templates that follow its direction. And it gives you a place to write in, like who pays for this service? Who is my customer? What's most important about them? Who are my additional service providers? Who do I need to be working with in order to facilitate?
to facilitate doing my business. And so it breaks down, it does the task analysis essentially, it helps guide you through the task analysis essentially. So that you can write in what you need. And then the reason they key in on sticky notes is because that changes. The more you learn, the more your business changing grows and develop, you might pull that sticky note say, actually my customer is not older adults, it's their kids. And so now I'm gonna reach out by Facebook or wherever, because their kids are.
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
Yeah. Yep.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
exist in this place, right? And so Business Model Campus is a great, great resource to help with getting started and having a different way to write it down, like they said. So we're getting really close to the end of our episode. And so I really love it if y'all could wrap up by giving OTs. No, no, I'm gonna make this more specific to you. You have been in business for years now. I wanna think about your pre-business self.
What piece of advice would you give them now that you've done this for a while? Amelia is first.
Emilia Bourland
off.
Emilia Bourland
This is going to sound kind of corny and probably not a great answer, but I think I would just say, like, just go for it. Don't hesitate. Don't be afraid. I would say don't be afraid. Like, it's going to be okay and you can do this.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Yes!
Justin Oakley
Yeah, I'm gonna keep it very generic as well. And I'm gonna just, I'm gonna say what I tell my kids all the time. It's, it's you got this. It's you got this. Yep, you do, you got this.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Man, if I wasn't already in business, y'all inspired me to go into business today, man, for real.
Justin Oakley
I'm sorry.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Listen, this is awesome. I really appreciate your time, Jessen, for joining us. So we had another perspective from another OT entrepreneur. You should tell the people how they can connect with you.
Justin Oakley
Well, you can find us at oaklehomeaccess.com on the web. got LinkedIn. We're very active on Instagram, Facebook as well. We're always trying to post DIY educational things as well as the services and products that we offer. And you can call us 401-429-3882 to get in touch with us directly. But yeah, the website really does a nice job, we think, of just
educating folks about what's out there, what they can do to help their living situation.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
And Amelia, I know this is our podcast together, but in case people are catching this information separately from our podcast, tell them a little bit about your business and where the Kinect would you add to.
Emilia Bourland
Sure.
Emilia Bourland
Yeah, so definitely you can find if you want to connect with me over LinkedIn, that's a great place to connect with me. That's where I do a lot of my like posting and educational posting. So my business is higher standards caregiver training. We specialize in training non medical caregivers and family caregivers and trying to make that training as easy, effective and affordable as we possibly can. And the best place to find us is at www.higherstandardscaregivertraining.com.
where you can find more information, you can find a course, whatever you need.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
That's awesome. And I guess I should say that I'm the founder of Ask Sammy and you can find us at AskSammy.com for all things adaptive equipment and caregiving. So it's a great resource for your families and for you as a clinician too. And I would be remiss if I didn't say that by the time this goes live, we either have done this or it's about to come out, but we have built a social media platform for OTs so that you can take your
Emilia Bourland
Yeah, I was gonna say you should.
Emilia Bourland
So cool.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Binders, your printed binders where you save all your brochures and all your stuff and your treatments and all that stuff. You can digitize all of that, share it with other OTs, learn from each other, and then take those notebook pages and share them with families so that you can give your personalized solutions really easily and in a quick and effortless way. And so hopefully you'll come join us for Ask Sammy. And so if you want to sign up for the waitlist or...
good place to check it out now will be asksamibusiness.com and if we're live by then that will route you to the live website. So yeah, it's gonna be a place for OTs to come in so join us. And thank you everybody for being on the episode.
Emilia Bourland
Congratulations on building that, Brandy. That's great.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Well, thank you very much. We can talk about that a whole other episode.
Emilia Bourland
Yeah.
Justin Oakley
haha
All right, easy,
Emilia Bourland
All right, y'all, well, thanks so much for listening to this episode. Please make sure that you download, like, subscribe, follow, and we'll see you next time right here on CareLab. Bye.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
All right.
Brandy Archie, OTD, OTR/L, CLIPP
Bye everybody.
Justin Oakley
Thank you.
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